# Deconstructing and Rebuilding RPG Design | Live With Kelsey Dionne ![rw-book-cover](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OADZLovtpPg/maxresdefault.jpg?v=65ad93a5) URL:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADZLovtpPg&t=949 Author:: Dungeon Masterpiece ## AI-Generated Summary The content is a conversation between Barop and Kelsey Deon about the creation of the game Shadow Dark. Kelsey discusses how she dissected and analyzed different games to create Shadow Dark, including inspirations from icpg, five torches deep, and Dungeon Crawl Classics. She also talks about incorporating modern game design elements such as streamlined skill systems and action economy. The conversation touches on the Kickstarter campaign for Shadow Dark and Kelsey's involvement with the charity Develop Africa. Overall, Kelsey aimed to create a game that synthesized the essence of old-school gaming while also incorporating nostalgic elements from D&D. ## Highlights > get it to do what you wanted what were what were some of the standout systems that you were looking at uh as you were like decomposing recomposing in that process what yeah there so there were Pro there were three that I was almost going to try to adopt for these Adventure writing projects and because they're all three very great very great systems I love them all um the first one was icpg which is probably shadow dark's closest brother and there's a lot of cross-pollination between both games and um Hank overt runehammer has been Pro ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnag0v5v8kryr7959wwj9p8t)) ## New highlights added January 29, 2024 at 4:59 PM > not systems they're ideas so one of the examples of this is Darkness must matter that was one of the core pillars of Shadow design time must matter so before you even get down to designing the mechanics like you have to identify what you want the mechanic to actually reflect because if you're just making Mechanics for the sake of it it's just sort of an exercise and what you can do not what you should do um and that so that that like making a list of like I really want Darkness to matter I really want for example one could say I really ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnawbbfcgdf5am7y5wzkvj6f)) > when you're playing your game at the table and you're building dozens of characters to play test the process um so yeah I'm just like well you probably just use the back of another iron Spike to hammer that one in or like the pommel of your long sword I mean I don't know like come up with something use a rock so yeah use a rock exactly and that is why hammers were removed I see everyone saying never forget 11 1221 the day hammers were removed from the beta draft that's I love that you have fans that remember ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnawejrpmcs980xdk6bfwhw0)) > it you can do it you did the hard part already if it's conceptual I guess so is there I saw a question where someone said did you consider roll under when designing Shadow dark and that is the reason why I did not choose black hack as my um choice I okay I think they roll under I the for me it was again a a core pillar that we needed a unified system um because we needed R High to always be better in Shadow dark and that is true throughout the entire game including ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxa30n9xcx0rzwnhzdwwgc)) > a little bit I don't know I think I think you've threaded the needle there yeah like it's it's it's funny cuz you don't I don't like making mechanics that are punitive if you like look very carefully at the game you'll see that a lot of stuff does not have a punitive downshot if you fail for example um except in a couple like minor cases so try not to be arbitrarily punitive like haha you failed your attack role therefore you must make a fumble ch like no yeah that kind of thing like don't work that kind of stuff into the game ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxmvm7r0wf95b064bfm26m)) Note: Based on the passage you provided, Kelsey Dionne created a skill system for her TTRPG system, Shadowdark, but had difficulty with it and ultimately decided it was not working. The document appears to be discussing Kelsey's process of designing and refining her TTRPG system. > for some people just that Adventure alone in the caves of chaos enormous amount of gameplay potential just in that and characters were dying a lot more frequently back then so I I think that you know to a certain extent people like to equate The lethality of the game with its inability to handle campaign play but history has kind of proven that to be not true and my own experience play testing the game has allowed me to run very lengthy campaigns I like I remember I started a shadow dark campaign that was kind of on again ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxqp3g54yzhg0dvk2b0zrb)) > someone's reviewing a game they're like could this be a problem and it's wor speculating over but characters are meant to be able to reach 10th level in Shadow darkart like they're meant to be able to do it you know based on a lot of data that I calculated out about the game that I built up through play testing it should take about a year of maybe once or every other week of play on average um and I've never had a character naturally reach 10th level in one of my my own games like anytime I was play testing high level we actually built high level characters so the ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxrwcr04ft2q8daet62pxm)) --- Title: Deconstructing and Rebuilding RPG Design | Live With Kelsey Dionne Author: Dungeon Masterpiece Tags: readwise, articles date: 2024-01-30 --- # Deconstructing and Rebuilding RPG Design | Live With Kelsey Dionne ![rw-book-cover](https://i.ytimg.com/vi/OADZLovtpPg/maxresdefault.jpg?v=65ad93a5) URL:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OADZLovtpPg&t=949 Author:: Dungeon Masterpiece ## AI-Generated Summary The content is a conversation between Barop and Kelsey Deon about the creation of the game Shadow Dark. Kelsey discusses how she dissected and analyzed different games to create Shadow Dark, including inspirations from icpg, five torches deep, and Dungeon Crawl Classics. She also talks about incorporating modern game design elements such as streamlined skill systems and action economy. The conversation touches on the Kickstarter campaign for Shadow Dark and Kelsey's involvement with the charity Develop Africa. Overall, Kelsey aimed to create a game that synthesized the essence of old-school gaming while also incorporating nostalgic elements from D&D. ## Highlights > get it to do what you wanted what were what were some of the standout systems that you were looking at uh as you were like decomposing recomposing in that process what yeah there so there were Pro there were three that I was almost going to try to adopt for these Adventure writing projects and because they're all three very great very great systems I love them all um the first one was icpg which is probably shadow dark's closest brother and there's a lot of cross-pollination between both games and um Hank overt runehammer has been Pro ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnag0v5v8kryr7959wwj9p8t)) > not systems they're ideas so one of the examples of this is Darkness must matter that was one of the core pillars of Shadow design time must matter so before you even get down to designing the mechanics like you have to identify what you want the mechanic to actually reflect because if you're just making Mechanics for the sake of it it's just sort of an exercise and what you can do not what you should do um and that so that that like making a list of like I really want Darkness to matter I really want for example one could say I really ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnawbbfcgdf5am7y5wzkvj6f)) > when you're playing your game at the table and you're building dozens of characters to play test the process um so yeah I'm just like well you probably just use the back of another iron Spike to hammer that one in or like the pommel of your long sword I mean I don't know like come up with something use a rock so yeah use a rock exactly and that is why hammers were removed I see everyone saying never forget 11 1221 the day hammers were removed from the beta draft that's I love that you have fans that remember ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnawejrpmcs980xdk6bfwhw0)) > it you can do it you did the hard part already if it's conceptual I guess so is there I saw a question where someone said did you consider roll under when designing Shadow dark and that is the reason why I did not choose black hack as my um choice I okay I think they roll under I the for me it was again a a core pillar that we needed a unified system um because we needed R High to always be better in Shadow dark and that is true throughout the entire game including ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxa30n9xcx0rzwnhzdwwgc)) > a little bit I don't know I think I think you've threaded the needle there yeah like it's it's it's funny cuz you don't I don't like making mechanics that are punitive if you like look very carefully at the game you'll see that a lot of stuff does not have a punitive downshot if you fail for example um except in a couple like minor cases so try not to be arbitrarily punitive like haha you failed your attack role therefore you must make a fumble ch like no yeah that kind of thing like don't work that kind of stuff into the game ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxmvm7r0wf95b064bfm26m)) Note: Based on the passage you provided, Kelsey Dionne created a skill system for her TTRPG system, Shadowdark, but had difficulty with it and ultimately decided it was not working. The document appears to be discussing Kelsey's process of designing and refining her TTRPG system. > for some people just that Adventure alone in the caves of chaos enormous amount of gameplay potential just in that and characters were dying a lot more frequently back then so I I think that you know to a certain extent people like to equate The lethality of the game with its inability to handle campaign play but history has kind of proven that to be not true and my own experience play testing the game has allowed me to run very lengthy campaigns I like I remember I started a shadow dark campaign that was kind of on again ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxqp3g54yzhg0dvk2b0zrb)) > someone's reviewing a game they're like could this be a problem and it's wor speculating over but characters are meant to be able to reach 10th level in Shadow darkart like they're meant to be able to do it you know based on a lot of data that I calculated out about the game that I built up through play testing it should take about a year of maybe once or every other week of play on average um and I've never had a character naturally reach 10th level in one of my my own games like anytime I was play testing high level we actually built high level characters so the ([View Highlight](https://read.readwise.io/read/01hnaxrwcr04ft2q8daet62pxm))