# 457 - Creating Lasting Sexual Connections With Emily Nagoski  URL:: https://share.snipd.com/episode/04e690aa-5f05-4403-9b37-4f9b958ceb43 Author:: Multiamory: Rethinking Modern Relationships ## AI-Generated Summary None ## Highlights > Pleasure Over Spark: Building Sustained Sexual Connections > Summary: > Responsive desire, a normal way to experience sexual desire, contrasts with the common expectation of spontaneous desire or a constant spark in a relationship. > The concept of the 'desire imperative' reflects the pressure to maintain an initial spark in a relationship, which can lead to disappointment as that spark naturally fades over time. Research on long-term strong sexual connections indicates that the focus shifts from desire or spark to a mutual enjoyment of pleasure in sexual experiences. > Transcript: > Speaker 4 > That's responsive desire and it is one of the normal, healthy ways to experience sexual desire. > Speaker 1 > And most people when they hear spark, they hear spontaneous desire like I should want my partner out of the blue regardless of what else is going on in my life. > Speaker 2 > And if I have to kind of, you know, drag myself to date night, if it takes some time for me to preheat the oven, then there's something wrong. > Speaker 1 > And I don't want my partner enough in the book, I call it the desire imperative that there's this sparky thing you feel at the beginning of a relationship. And that lasts for a while and eventually it goes away and either you can sort of accept that it has gone away. And as your hormones fade, you hold hands together at sunset, drifting on a sea of sexlessness, I guess. > Speaker 6 > Or you can fight hard, you can invest time, energy, money in trying to keep the spark alive. > Speaker 2 > And when you look at the actual research on people who do sustained strong sexual connections over the long term, they do not talk about desire. They do not talk about spark. You know what they talk about pleasure? > Speaker 8 > They like the sex that they have. ([Time 0:06:09](https://share.snipd.com/snip/df3c9ba1-c956-4327-b0cc-14a0f09979a1)) > Spontaneous vs. Responsive Desire > Summary: > Spontaneous desire is akin to the sudden urge to eat leftover cake in the fridge at midnight out of sheer love for cake, while not being hungry. > Responsive desire is when you make a conscious decision to attend a party despite fatigue, organize childcare, dress up, tackle traffic, and eventually end up having a good time at the party. > Transcript: > Speaker 1 > Spontaneous desire is like waking up in the middle of the night and you remember that there's leftover cake in the fridge from the party. > Speaker 2 > And your interest in that cake has nothing to do with you being hungry. You're not hungry. It's the middle of the night, but man, you love cake and there's a cake in the fridge. That's spontaneous desire. > Speaker 4 > The responsive desire is when you're like, I said I would go to this party and I've had a long week, but I said I would go. > Speaker 1 > So we arrange the childcare and I'm gonna put on my party clothes and we're gonna go through all the traffic. And then I show up and I have a good time at the party. That's responsive desire. ([Time 0:10:39](https://share.snipd.com/snip/45b7efae-9cd2-4741-83cc-fd3aafc83f7b)) > Cultivating Shared Gardens in Relationships > Summary: > From birth, we absorb ideas about sex, love, and relationships which shape our personal 'garden'. > In relationships, partners share their 'gardens', intertwining their values and hopes. Over time, the shared garden requires mutual care and attention to ensure compatibility and avoid neglect. > It symbolizes the collaborative effort and growth in a long-term relationship. > Transcript: > Speaker 1 > On the day you're born with this little plot of rich and fertile soil and your family and your culture start to plant ideas about sex and love and bodies and relationships and safety and Gender. And by the time you get to adulthood, you have this garden. And they have taught you how to tend it and some of us get lucky and have nothing but beautiful things that we want to cultivate, but a lot of us get stuck with some very toxic shit in our gardens And have to go row by row and weed and to choose which things we want to keep and cultivate and which things we want to pull and throw in the compost heap to rot and become fertilizer for other Things. > Speaker 2 > And early in a relationship, you're often like going to visit each other's gardens and like explore and find out what's there. > Speaker 1 > But at a certain point in a long term relationship, when your sexual connection lasts over years, eventually you start to cultivate a shared garden. > Speaker 4 > You bring over your favorite things from your garden and they bring over their favorite things from their garden. > Speaker 1 > You hope to heck those things are compatible or not going to strangulate each other. > Speaker 2 > And as time passes, there are certain seasons in life when the garden gets neglected. > Speaker 1 > And also the garden is still there and you can go back and untangle all the weeds that have grown. So it's not just about your individual garden. > Speaker 6 > It's about like, here's this shared plot that you and I are cultivating together. ([Time 0:12:30](https://share.snipd.com/snip/dc13753a-8210-4095-83a2-576ef4ebf219)) > The Power of the Brain in Achieving Orgasms > Summary: > The brain is highlighted as the most crucial organ for experiencing orgasms, as it is possible to have an orgasm without genitals, hands, or faith, but not without a brain. > The importance of the brain in sexual pleasure is emphasized through the comparison with the scarecrow in the Wizard of Oz, suggesting that perhaps what he truly desired was a brain all along. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > I correct it because I had a really terrible copy editor for Come As You Are. > Speaker 1 > I have the sentence that your brain is your most important sex orcaion, and she changed it to largest. > Speaker 9 > I see you. I was like, oh no. > Speaker 6 > So like it matters to me. The brain is that because you can have an orgasm, you can remove almost any part of your body except your brain and still be able to have an orgasm. > Speaker 4 > You don't have any genitals to have an orgasm. You don't need fate to have an orgasm. > Speaker 2 > Don't need hands to have an orgasm. You need a brain. > Speaker 3 > Like it really puts the scarecrow from the Wizard of Oz in a different perspective for me, but maybe that's why he really wanted to brain all along. ([Time 0:18:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d7928b34-8a6d-4f50-ab00-c6923ec21fad)) > The Importance of Third Things in a Relationship > Summary: > Long-lasting relationships require focusing on shared 'third things' beyond just gazing into each other's eyes. > These 'third things' can be a favorite artist, children, a sports team, a garden, or a special needs pet. By turning their gaze towards these shared interests, couples can strengthen their connection and bring focus, pleasure, and meaning to their relationship, including their shared erotic connection. > Transcript: > Speaker 1 > The third thing comes from an essay written by a poet about his marriage to another poet where he talks about that they didn't spend their days gazing into each other's eyes. > Speaker 2 > They spent their days with their gaze on shared third things, which every relationship that lasts any amount of time requires third things. > Speaker 4 > It can be your favorite artist. > Speaker 1 > It can be your kids. It can be the sports team that you follow. > Speaker 4 > It can be your garden. It can be your special needs cat. You have third things that your relationship focuses on. > Speaker 2 > And I 100% believe that your shared erotic connection, if that's a component of your relationship, it deserves to be a third thing toward which you turn your shared gaze with focus, > Speaker 6 > With pleasure, with ([Time 0:20:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/79f8f454-12f2-4f26-af3a-ff436c26753c)) > Characteristics of Couples with Strong Sexual Connection > Summary: > Couples with a strong sexual connection have three key characteristics: Firstly, they have a good relationship built on friendship, admiration, and trust. > Secondly, they prioritize the importance of sex in their relationship, understanding what they want and need from it. Finally, they reject societal norms and invest energy in creating sexual identities that work for them, allowing these identities to evolve over time. > These couples find a way back to each other when they lose track because sex matters to them, despite the busyness of life. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > And so I found there's three characteristics for couples who sustained a strong sexual connection over the long term. > Speaker 1 > One, they have a good relationship. They are friends who admire and trust each other for crying out loud. I hope that's not controversial. > Speaker 7 > No, it's not. No, it's not. We talk about that all the time. > Speaker 3 > Yeah. > Speaker 2 > Two, sex matters to them. > Speaker 1 > They decide that it is important for their relationship for whatever reason. And all of chapter one is what is it that you want when you want sex? > Speaker 8 > What is it that you don't want? > Speaker 1 > When you don't want sex, finding out why and whether sex matters to you as an individual and to this specific relationship is one of the essential things you have to do repeatedly. Like why would we spend our time? Like we've got maybe we've got kids to take care of. We've got jobs to go to. Maybe we've got school to attend other family members to pay attention to other friends who want to spend time with. > Speaker 2 > God forbid we just want to watch a little YouTube and take a nap, right? We're busy. > Speaker 4 > Why would we close the door on all these other things? > Speaker 2 > So there has to be something that matters. So the second characteristic is they decide that it matters for their relationship. And it does not always matter. Sometimes it drops to the bottom of the priority list and that's fine. > Speaker 1 > The couples who sustain a strong connection are not the ones who never lose track of each other. They're the ones who find their way back because it matters. > Speaker 2 > And then the third characteristic is these are couples who recognize that all the culturally constructed narratives about who they're supposed to be a sexual people are all fictional > Speaker 1 > Bullshit that only get in the way. And they invest a whole bunch of energy rejecting that stuff and co-creating sexual identities that truly work for them. And they allow those to evolve over time. > Speaker 4 > In particular, I'm talking about the patriarchy broadly and the gender binary more specifically. > Speaker 2 > Being trapped in those roles is very dangerous. ([Time 0:22:25](https://share.snipd.com/snip/af528d7b-25a3-44b5-a1c8-e3fee3c7f2bd)) > Embracing seeking in relationships leads to diverse experiences > Summary: > The seeking space in relationships involves curiosity, exploration, and adventure. > For the speaker, dating fellow grad students led to engaging conversations about research transitioning smoothly into intimacy. Whereas, for others, seeking manifests as traveling the world together, even selling possessions for the experience. > Transcript: > Speaker 1 > Seeking is another space in our emotional floor plan. This is curiosity, exploration. My favorites, this for me, this was a really big one until I got out of school. All the people I dated when I was in grad school were also grad students. > Speaker 2 > And talking about each other's research was like, it was like, like basically a water slide directly from talking about the other person's research into the lust space, just like directly, Just easily. > Speaker 1 > For other people, the seeking space, adventure exploration takes the form of traveling the world together. > Speaker 2 > I know people who like sold other possessions and travel around the world together, which sounds like a nightmare to me personally, but they loved it. ([Time 0:26:58](https://share.snipd.com/snip/8ba14205-3321-401b-a1a3-f9ea2aaf8cdf)) > Creating a Context for Intimacy > Summary: > Creating a context for intimacy involves setting external circumstances and windows of time. > Scheduled sex can be beneficial as it allows for designated time to transition emotionally and mentally into a space of intimacy, rather than focusing directly on lust. By focusing on care, seeking, and playfulness first, individuals can naturally transition into the space of desire and passion. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > So creating a context is yes about your external circumstances, about creating windows of time. > Speaker 4 > The reason I'm a fan of scheduled sex is because I feel like I want to live at that. > Speaker 2 > People's complaint about scheduled sex is they feel like if they have to put in the calendar, if they have to plan ahead, they don't really want me enough. > Speaker 1 > If they don't want me spontaneously, there's something wrong. > Speaker 6 > Like if that's your life, cool. > Speaker 1 > And also I think a lot of people are busier than that. Yes. > Speaker 2 > And like if something gets on the calendar, like my partner, Corden off time on the calendar is to spend with me. > Speaker 4 > And it's not just enough time for the sexities. > Speaker 2 > It's enough time to transition out of wherever we were in our emotional floor plans into and I have found you don't try to transition into the lust space because the ironic process will > Speaker 1 > Take over and you'll never get there. > Speaker 4 > Don't think about a white bear. Don't think about a white bear. Get an erection, get an erection, get an erection. It's never going to happen. > Speaker 1 > Don't try to go to the lust space. > Speaker 2 > Go to the room next door to the room where it happens. Just get to the play space, get to care, get to seeking. > Speaker 1 > And from there you will water slide, you will like open the door, you will get into the lust space from there. ([Time 0:29:15](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f8a15daf-0105-45ef-ba99-8376f3a9e24a)) > Judgment is the thief of joy in relationships > Summary: > The key to a great sex life lies in confidence and joy. > Confidence is knowing what is true, while joy is loving what is true. Judgment, as the thief of joy, can hinder the joy in relationships. > When judgment arises towards a partner's sexuality, it is essential to address and acknowledge it as a reflection of oneself. > Engaging in conversations about such judgments with kindness and open warmth is crucial for maintaining a healthy and fulfilling relationship. > Transcript: > Speaker 4 > The thief of joy is judgment. Judgment is the thief of joy deciding that things are different. > Speaker 1 > This one is right and that one is wrong. These are different. > Speaker 2 > This one is good and this one is bad. > Speaker 4 > It's the judgment that is the thief of joy. And of course, I think I say over and over. Y'all have probably heard me say it 12 million times. Confidence isn't confidence and joy are the keys to a great sex life. Confidence is knowing what is true. Joy is the hard part. Joy is loving what is true. And judgment is the thief of joy. So you can know like everything there is to know about your partner. > Speaker 2 > But if a part of you recoils from a part of their sexuality, that's not a part of their sexuality that you should engage with currently. And also recognize that that judgment is about you. That's a thing that lives inside you. And when you're going to have a conversation about it, which conversations about this stuff are great. Know that you have that judgment living inside you. Imagine what it would feel like for you. > Speaker 4 > If your partner responded to something that's true about your sexuality with the kind of judgment you feel inside you about this aspect of their sexuality and do everything you can To respond to them the way you would want them to respond to you with kindness and open warmth. ([Time 0:44:18](https://share.snipd.com/snip/abc91d5f-985e-4e70-873b-4486a3535397)) > Dealing with the Withdrawal of Sexual Attention > Summary: > Experiencing the withdrawal of sexual attention can be uncomfortable, but it is normal. > Learning to manage our emotional responses is crucial to maintaining balance in such situations. It is better for partners to communicate and stop an action if it doesn't feel right, rather than continuing and revealing it later. > This approach prioritizes open communication and honesty within relationships. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > Like you get, like you get an unwanted pain when a person withdraws their sexual attention from you like, Hey, what about, what about my thing? > Speaker 4 > And that's normal and okay. And that is why we learn how to stay over own emotional center of gravity because isn't it so much better that our partner stops a thing and we feel like, Oh, oh, and then we can talk about It later, then that they went ahead and did something. They didn't feel good doing like it's. And then, and then they tell you later that they did a thing that they didn't feel good doing. Yeah. Or they didn't feel good doing and they never told you about it. Like it, I realized that it's like a cost benefit thing, but like it's, this is definitely the best one. ([Time 0:50:16](https://share.snipd.com/snip/5f9edc6d-748c-4de9-a1a6-13e0d679466b)) > Gendered Emotional Norms in Heterosexual Relationships > Summary: > In heterosexual relationships, individuals are raised according to 'it's a girl' or 'it's a boy' sets of rules that dictate which emotions they are allowed to experience. > Those raised with the 'it's a boy' rules are expected to feel anger, aggression, and sexual desire, while other emotions like sadness, loneliness, and grief are dismissed. This leads to a lack of understanding and coping mechanisms for a range of emotions beyond the anger and horniness that are encouraged. > Transcript: > Speaker 1 > There's a chapter specifically for people in heterosexual-type relationships because of the gender dynamic created by one person being raised according to the it's a girl set of Rules and regulations that you get based on nothing more informative than the organization of your genitals. And then the other person gets the it's a boy set of rules and regulations based on nothing more than the shape of their genitals. > Speaker 2 > And they get raised with all of these rules about which emotions you're allowed to experience, not just emotions you're allowed to express, which ones you're allowed to experience. > Speaker 1 > And boy, if you get raised with the it's a boy set of rules and regulations, you get winning, you get angry, and you get horny. > Speaker 2 > And if your little mammalian body is like, but I feel sad, no, no, no, no, you're not allowed to feel sad. Sad is not a thing that exists for you. You feel angry, right? You feel angry. > Speaker 1 > No, you're not sad. You're angry. And like, these are different spaces in your emotional floor plan. What you do when you're in the rage space is different from what you need to do when you're in the panic grief space. > Speaker 2 > And so you never learn what to do when you're in the panic grief space. Oh, you feel lonely? > Speaker 8 > No, no, no, lonely. > Speaker 2 > Lonely is for girls. You do not feel lonely. You feel horny. > Speaker 1 > And you never get taught that like what loneliness feels like and what you do when you feel lonely. ([Time 0:55:29](https://share.snipd.com/snip/d03b29fe-1e48-4eeb-abae-e1f0bf8f85de)) > Emotional Expression vs. Experience > Summary: > Societal rules dictate which emotions people are allowed to experience, not just express. > Certain gender norms enforce emotional constraints, preventing individuals from acknowledging and processing emotions like sadness, loneliness, or grief. This limitation leads to a lack of understanding and coping mechanisms for different emotional states, potentially causing individuals to struggle with identifying and managing their feelings effectively. > Moreover, the societal script for different genders can also intertwine sexuality with one's sense of self-worth, equating validation with sexual interactions. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > And they get raised with all of these rules about which emotions you're allowed to experience, not just emotions you're allowed to express, which ones you're allowed to experience. > Speaker 1 > And boy, if you get raised with the it's a boy set of rules and regulations, you get winning, you get angry, and you get horny. > Speaker 2 > And if your little mammalian body is like, but I feel sad, no, no, no, no, you're not allowed to feel sad. Sad is not a thing that exists for you. You feel angry, right? You feel angry. > Speaker 1 > No, you're not sad. You're angry. And like, these are different spaces in your emotional floor plan. What you do when you're in the rage space is different from what you need to do when you're in the panic grief space. > Speaker 2 > And so you never learn what to do when you're in the panic grief space. Oh, you feel lonely? > Speaker 8 > No, no, no, lonely. > Speaker 2 > Lonely is for girls. You do not feel lonely. You feel horny. > Speaker 1 > And you never get taught that like what loneliness feels like and what you do when you feel lonely. > Speaker 8 > And the It's a Girl script has plenty of other, it has, but you asked about dudes. > Speaker 6 > Yeah. > Speaker 1 > It also does this appalling thing of tying sexuality to identity and worth as a human being that your value walking around on earth can be measured by whether or not other people let you Put your penis inside their bodies. ([Time 0:55:57](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6b012a2b-19b4-409a-8cfb-d703291c2baa)) ## New highlights added February 15, 2024 at 3:34 PM > Practice Pleasure Gratitude for Increased Sensitivity > Summary: > Acknowledging specific pleasures experienced daily through gratitude practice enhances sensitivity to pleasure and trains the nervous system to access a state of pleasure more easily. > Transcript: > Speaker 2 > I learned the practice of pleasure gratitude where every day instead of like just a generic I'm grateful for whatever, you're grateful for a specific pleasure that you experienced > Speaker 1 > During that day. > Speaker 7 > I like that. > Speaker 2 > It means that you're constantly looking for the pleasures. > Speaker 4 > And as you look for them, it's like looking for four leaf clovers. > Speaker 2 > If you look, you will find them and that increases your sensitivity to it, which tunes your nervous system, not to stay in a state of being able to experience pleasure, but it means you're > Speaker 4 > Training your nervous system to have fluid access to a pleasure experiencing state. ([Time 1:03:50](https://share.snipd.com/snip/6b19aceb-4a1b-4eb7-838b-deaf2a50fae6)) ## New highlights added February 18, 2024 at 2:53 PM > Episode AI notes > 1. Responsive desire is a normal way to experience sexual desire, and it's important to understand that it contrasts with the common expectation of spontaneous desire or a constant spark in a relationship. > 2. Creating a shared garden in a long-term relationship requires mutual care and attention to ensure compatibility and avoid neglect. > 3. The brain plays a crucial role in experiencing orgasms and is the most important organ for sexual pleasure. > 4. Long-lasting relationships require focusing on shared 'third things' beyond just focusing on each other, which can strengthen the connection and bring pleasure and meaning to the relationship. > 5. Couples with strong sexual connections prioritize the importance of sex in their relationship, have a good foundation of friendship, admiration, and trust, and reject societal norms to create evolving sexual identities. > 6. Seeking in relationships involves curiosity, exploration, and adventure, and it can take different forms for different individuals, such as engaging in intellectual conversations or traveling together. > 7. Creating a context for intimacy involves setting external circumstances and windows of time, and it can be beneficial to schedule sex to allow for emotional and mental transition into a space of intimacy. > 8. Confidence and joy are key to a great sex life, and it's important to address and acknowledge judgment towards a partner's sexuality as a reflection of oneself. > 9. Dealing with the withdrawal of sexual attention is normal, and open communication and honesty are essential in maintaining a healthy relationship. > 10. Different emotions beyond anger and desire are often dismissed in individuals raised with 'it's a boy' rules, leading to a lack of understanding and coping mechanisms for a range of emotions. > 11. Sexuality is often tied to identity and self-worth, which can lead to harmful beliefs and the creation of harmful cultures. > 12. Acknowledging and practicing gratitude for specific pleasures enhances sensitivity to pleasure and trains the nervous system to access a state of pleasure more easily. ([Time 0:00:00](https://share.snipd.com/episode-takeaways/1ff08348-d3d1-406d-9979-a7a23dae0f41))