# Esther Perel Invites Us to Imagine Our Preferred Future  URL:: https://share.snipd.com/episode/b892b749-395f-45f8-886c-63c106f407e7 Author:: Where Should We Begin? with Esther Perel  ## AI-Generated Summary None ## Highlights > **Inward Focus vs. Public Good** > - Amy Webb disagrees with Frederik Pferdt's inward-focused approach to imagining a better future. > - She argues that people's self-interest often overrides their concern for the public good, citing this as a reason for current challenges. > Transcript: > Amy Webb > The problem with how you are describing we can all make a better future is that it is 100% inward facing. And we're living in challenging times right now because people followed their bliss. And their bliss was, I have a single authoritarian viewpoint on how the world ought to look. So the stark reality is feelings matter. But at the end of the day, nobody is inherently incentivized to make better decisions for everybody. Most people, to some degree, are selfish. So if we want to create the best, they are. You can disagree, but the data point to the fact that in most circumstances, people are going to make choices that benefit themselves rather than the public good. I wish it wasn't that way, but that's the world that we live in. ([Time 0:10:34](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f9292c70-c2a4-4fba-82b7-1b99276fd497)) > **Self-Interest vs. Better Future** > - We're incentivized to make self-preserving decisions. > - To achieve a better future, we must consider what motivates people to make better choices, not just envision a positive outcome. > Transcript: > Amy Webb > We are incentivized and wired to make decisions that preserve our own best interests. So if that's the case, we want to achieve a better future, we have to think of what's going to cause somebody to make that better decision. It's not enough to say, imagine yourself in the future and hope it all works out and create a vision, and that's great. Because there are plenty of people doing that in a way that is detrimental for the whole. ([Time 0:11:47](https://share.snipd.com/snip/032992a2-3a19-41b4-a6b8-33431443a3b0)) > **Discomfort with Disagreement** > - We are becoming less accustomed to witnessing people disagreeing passionately. > - This is partly because technology removes friction and presents algorithmic perfections, making us ill-equipped to handle real-world conflicts. > Transcript: > Esther Perel > So, I just want to take a quick pulse check. How many of you had a sudden rise of stress hormones? That happens. > Amy Webb > I do stress people out. > Esther Perel > No, it wasn't you. It was the fact that we are becoming less and less accustomed to seeing people who are experiencing things deeply, that they care about deeply, and that they also disagree about in front Of others. Because part of what's happening to us is that we are living in a technological world that is basically removing every friction possible and giving us algorithmic perfections to the Point where when things don't go as we had imagined, we are stumped and we don't know how to experience confrontation, frustration, conflict or disagreement. ([Time 0:12:11](https://share.snipd.com/snip/22214cf3-59f6-40e3-aa64-a1853307757e)) > **Social Atrophy from Algorithmic Perfection** > - Algorithmic perfection in our relationships with machines changes our expectations of other people. > - This makes negotiating relationships harder, especially with increased freedom in the West and a decreased tolerance for uncertainty. > Transcript: > Esther Perel > And I think that one of the things that I would love to exchange with both of you is what I consider a growing social atrophy. Basically, I often think that we have come to have such algorithmic perfections that in our relationship with machines and AI, and I'm not so interested in that relationship, but how This relationship with the algorithmic perfection is changing our expectations to other people. We now approach people with expectations that are being developed in our relationships with machines. And that is making it very complicated. Add to that that we are in a world in the West where we have never had more freedom to negotiate most aspects of relationships and of life. And we are losing the very skills that are necessary for these negotiations. One of these is something you talk about a lot. In order to negotiate freedom, you need to be able to tolerate uncertainty. You need to be able to tolerate experimentation, unknown, difference of opinions. And if you don't have that, then it becomes very difficult to manage your freedom. And if you can't tolerate that uncertainty, you will look for other people who provide you that certainty, and that's called autocracy. So this is what I am grappling with. What are the consequences of all of this for our human existence, for our existential angst? To me, there is no aspirations if you have existential angst. ([Time 0:32:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f8b48536-523a-424b-abb4-9af149490795)) > **Happiness and Uncertainty** > - Happiness comes from embracing uncertainty. > - The happiest people are open-minded, receptive, and willing to change their opinions. > Transcript: > Amy Webb > I'm the happiest I've ever been. And it's because I'm deeply comfortable with deep uncertainty now. But it's something you have to learn how to do. And the people that I find who are happiest, they actually don't, they may be strong, like I know plenty of people with strong personalities, they don't have strong opinions, they will Change their minds, they are receptive, they are open. ([Time 0:41:02](https://share.snipd.com/snip/e1f385a3-4a2d-466c-bd87-0d37f57d6765)) > **Reduce Anxiety with Creativity** > - One of the best ways to reduce anxiety is by engaging in creative work. > - This could be anything from writing or making music to having a creative conversation or even making a sandwich. > Transcript: > Frederik Pferdt > We all agree that we live in a world that is influenced by a lot of negativity, and that we live in a world and in a future that is unknown by definition. And that causes anxiety with everyone. We all feel that throughout the day. One of the best ways of reducing anxiety, actually switching it off, is engaging in creativity. Trying to do something that is creative work, right? And it doesn't have to be a big piece of art. It can be some writing. It can be producing some music. It can be a great creative conversation, a question storm, a brainstorm, whatever it is. Or just making a sandwich. That's also a creative act because that immediately turns off your anxiety if you're turning on your creativity. ([Time 0:42:54](https://share.snipd.com/snip/74ec9239-9e25-4259-a4de-6936d67eb7aa)) > **Radical Optimism** > - Radical optimists don't just see the glass as half full. > - They see the potential to fill it further, focusing on possibilities and making the world better. > Transcript: > Frederik Pferdt > And so on this notion of optimism, right, I hear a lot of, you know, mostly pessimists, obviously, you know, it's the glass half empty, right? Or it's the glass half full, the optimist. It's how we view the world. But a radically optimistic person sees the potential to fill the glass even further. And I think that's what we all are capable of doing. We can see potential. And we can unleash that potential that we have as human beings in our creativity, in how we engage with each other, in how we interact with each other, and how we mostly and hopefully make This world a better place through the small choices that we make in every moment. ([Time 0:44:20](https://share.snipd.com/snip/f2af11fe-d6f7-4fa2-b064-0e2105e354d0)) > **Empathy and Technology** > - Technology and algorithms can decrease our capacity for empathy. > - We must actively practice empathy in all types of relationships, not just interpersonal ones. > Transcript: > Amy Webb > The technology and the algorithmic determinism built to satiate us, we lose that muscle for empathy, which you can be born with some amount of, but then you have to practice. And I think it's important, obviously, between people, but we're also people who have relationships with other types of things like organizations and communities and schools, and I do think all of that is changing a little bit. It's not irrevocable. We just have to remember to practice that and develop that muscle. ([Time 0:47:37](https://share.snipd.com/snip/4df18d0e-2d1a-45b6-a78f-7be6b6868fd4))